Friday, 15 May 2015

homework and exercises - Ball rolling down an inclined plane going in to a loop



I apologize if this question is not up to par. When I was doing exercises in basic mechanics I checked the answers and I can't seem to find what I'm doing wrong. Suppose we have a ball with mass $m$ and radius $r$ on an inclined plane with height $h$. At the end of the inclined plane is a loop with a radius of $R$ and we can assume that $r<

We have $U_1\geq K_{rot,2}+K_{trans,2}+U_2$.


For the ball rotating we have $I=\frac{1}{2}mr^2$ and $\omega=\frac{v}{r}$.


So $mgh\geq \frac{1}{2}I\omega^2+\frac{1}{2}mv^2+mg\cdot2R=\frac{3}{4} mv^2+mg\cdot 2R$.


The minimal speed to complete the loop implies $F_{centripetal}=\frac{mv^2}{R}= mg$


So $v^2= Rg$ and we have $gh\geq \frac{3}{4}Rg+g\cdot 2R$ which means $h\geq 2\frac{3}{4}R$, while the book says that the answer should be $h\geq 2.70R$. Can you explain what I am doing wrong?


Thank you


EDIT: Moment of inertia corrected.


For the ball rotating we have $I=\frac{2}{5}mr^2$ and $\omega=\frac{v}{r}$.


So $mgh\geq \frac{1}{2}I\omega^2+\frac{1}{2}mv^2+mg\cdot2R=\frac{7}{10} mv^2+mg\cdot 2R$.



After the edit with correction of the moment of inertia I am getting the right answer. We get $gh\geq\frac{7}{10}Rg+g\cdot 2R$ so $h\geq2\frac{7}{10}R$ in accordance with the book.



Answer



First thing, for a rotating ball, $I=\frac{2}{5}mR^2$. You also need to be clear on what $\omega$ you are talking about.


The kinetic energy of a rotating ball is $\frac12 I_{cm}\omega_{cm}^2 + \frac12 mv_{cm}^2$. Here, $v_{cm}=v$. But, $\omega_{cm}=v_{cm}\times \frac{r}{R}$. Since $r<



The main thing is is that you need to remember that the formula "Kinetic energy=rotational energy + translational energy" works only when you consider all rotations about center of mass. You cannot just keep tacking on terms for each motion you see. Even though the ball is revolving around the center of the loop, we still classify this as translational motion. If you don't do this, you can easily get confused while building the expression for KE.


Basically, for a ball of center of mass moment of inertia $I$, mass $m$, radius $r$, rotating about itself with $\omega_cm$, revolving in a circle of radius $R$ with $\omega'$ , the energy is NOT $\frac12 I\omega^2+ \frac12(I+mR^2)\omega'^2+\frac12 mv^2$, it is $\frac12 I\omega^2+ \frac12 mv^2=\frac12 I\omega^2+ \frac m (\omega'R)^2$.


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